interesting post!

I always feel guilty if I don't have some vegetables. that's my big issue. years worth of programming comes up in dietary choices, unfortunately!

out of curiosity, do you take any supplements? or are there any suggested on a carnivorous diet?

Thanks Ms. V!

I currently take two supplements (DMSA & Lipoic Acid) for something called chelation. Somewhere down the road in my 23 years of life I accumulated a large amount of lead and mercury in my body. These pills help get rid of it over time.

Hopefully in a year or so I won't have to take them, but right now I think it's worth it since my levels were so high.

I should note that normally I think supplementation on an all meat diet is unnecessary, but I believe there are extenuating circumstances.

Interesting post. While I like a high meat diet, just about all those groups you mentioned ate plant food when seasonally available, and in the case of the Inuit they also made and drank their own alcoholic beverages (as did some of the others)

As far as Dr. Price, it should be noted that the statistical difference between the groups regarding health was rather small, and that he concluded that the healthiest of tribes he found ate seafood and grains.

He did conclude that optimal health could not be maintained on a vegetarian diet, but he did not conclude from his studies that the best diet was a totally carnivorous diet. In fact he never found a group that ate 100% meat, including the Eskimos (who were quite fond of fermented seal oil as well).

Hey Michael,

Thanks for reading and thank you even more for posting.

I should edit my post to be more clear, but here is the breakdown by Charles Washington:

"One cannot generalize when speaking of the Inuit in particular because there were many groups of Inuit and they all did not eat the same things. The more northerly Inuit were exclusive meat-eaters. The ones by the sea ate fish and nothing but. The Mackenzie would eat caribou exclusively when it was available and fish when it was not.

However, they all had the same great health:

One of our experts described the Bellevue experiment which was obviously a reproduction of the Inuit diet in New York. Stefansson and Karsten Anderson demonstrated that one did not have to live exactly as the Inuit in order to be healthy and free from disease. They ate two pounds of sirloin per day with a half-pound of fat. They suffered no deficiencies just as our expert noted. Much was made about the fact that they did not have adequate calcium in their diet."

I haven't heard that the Inuit drank alcoholic beverages. Was it a specific group? Could you send me a link?

I agree with you about Price. I just found that quote to be revealing.

Danny

Danny,

Sorry for the late response.

I would like to see some verified references for groups that actually ate 100% meat as a way of life. So far every reference I have found comes up a short. I think a 100% meat diet is more than sustainable, but every group so far I have found ate other food when it was available.

As for the Bellevue study, they ate organ meats as well. Stefansson made it very clear to those running the study they needed organ meats and fat, not just lean meat, in order thrive during this time.

The alcoholic beverages reference comes from Stefansson, who said the Eskimos drank what he called "raw spirits" which is a way to make alcoholic beverages without heat. I would have to search out Stefansson's books to get the actual details. It has been awhile.

Yes Price's material is quite interesting. His own personal conclusion from his observations was that seafood (meaning all animals from the sea, not just fish) and grains was the best combination for optimal health, nonetheless he found excellent health across the macro-nutrient spectrum, from mostly meat eaters to high carb eaters, though no vegetarians or vegans in the bunch. Yup, that is what he found.

Hey Michael,

Thank you for your comment. I'm going to edit my post due to your information, in an attempt to be more accurate and clear. I should have fact checked these things a little more before I posted.

It seems the there are only few all carnivorous diets of certain groups and a large variety of groups that ate veggies & grains during famine or ate small amounts in general.

"Dr. Price's trip to Africa gave him the opportunity to compare primitive groups composed largely of meat eaters, with those of similar racial stock that were mostly vegetarian.5 The Masai of Tanganyika, Chewya of Kenya, Muhima of Uganda, Watusi of Ruanda and the Neurs tribes on the western side of the Nile in the Sudan were all cattle-keeping people. Their diets consisted largely of milk, blood and meat, supplemented in some cases with fish and with small amounts of grains, fruits and vegetables. The Neurs especially valued the livers of animals, considered so sacred "that it may not be touched by human hands. . . It is eaten both raw and cooked." These tribes were noted for their fine physiques and great height-in some groups the women averaged over 6 feet tall, and many men reached almost seven feet. Until his Africa trip, Price had not found groups that had no cavities at all, yet Dr. Price found six cattle-herding tribes that were completely free of dental decay. Furthermore, all members of these tribes exhibited straight, uncrowded teeth.

Bantu tribes such as the Kikuyu and Wakamba were agriculturists. Their diet consisted of sweet potatoes, corn, beans, bananas, millet and kaffir corn or sorghum. They were less robust than their meat-eating neighbors, and tended to be dominated by them. Price found that largely vegetarian groups had some tooth decay-usually around 5% or 6% of all teeth, still small numbers compared to Whites living off store-bought foods. Even among largely vegetarian tribes, dental occlusions were rare, as were degenerative diseases. It is a mistake, however, to think that these groups consumed no animal products at all, as is often claimed. Some Bantu tribes kept a few cattle and goats which supplied both milk and meat; they ate small animals such as frogs; and they put a high value on insect food. "The natives of Africa know that certain insects are very rich in special food values at certain seasons, also that their eggs are valuable foods. A fly that hatches in enormous quantities in Lake Victoria is gathered and used fresh and dried for storage. They also use ant eggs and ants." Other insects, such as bees, wasps, beetles, butterflies, moths, grubs, cricket, dragon flies and termites are sought out and consumed with relish by tribes throughout Africa.6 It is significant that groups who consumed mostly plant foods practiced the feeding of special animal foods during gestation and lactation. Apparently carnivorous groups found no need to supplement the diet, as it was already rich in the factors needed for reproduction and optimum growth."

http://tinyurl.com/g5iu

Michael, do you think the small amount of vegetation, grains and alcoholic spirits contributed to these groups not getting diseases of civilization?

I've reread Bellevue. I see that both men ate organ meats, but It still looks like the majority of food came from lean and fat.

"The meat used included beef, lamb, veal, pork and chicken. The parts used were muscle, liver kidne, brain, bone marrow, bacon and fat."

"The carbohydrate content of the diet was very small consisting solely of glycogen of the meat"

-XLV. Prolonged meat diets with a study of kideny function and ketosis*

Here is quote from Stefansson from Not By Bread Alone about organ meats:

“If there are four in a family and if they have a team of eight dogs, they divide the caribou nearly half and half, for two well-furred fifty-pound dogs that sleep outdoors in the cold eat about as much as one man who is well dressed and housed. Beginning with what is least desired by the family, the dogs get the tenderloin, lungs, liver, sweetbreads, and everything else from within the body except the kidney and intestinal fat, the kidneys themselves and the heart. Most of the meat is peeled off the hams for dog feed. Humerus and femur are saved for boiling, with what meat remains on them, and these bones are broken for marrow while hot.”

NBBA was written in 1946 so maybe Stefansson came to this conclusion after Bellevue?

Danny,

Have you read NBBA in its entirety? If you haven't I would highly suggest you doing so and Stefansson's other books as well. Very enlightening. As you noted above they ate the heart and kidney from the body, while giving the rest to the dogs. NBBA also notes that while they only ate the heart and kidney from the body cavity, they ate all of the head, which would include the tongue and brains. Stefansson specifically asked for and ate fried brains during the Bellevue study.

Price also noted the Eskimos highly valued organ meats.

Hey Michael,

I haven't been able to read all of NBBA sadly, each time I try my eyes just get too tired from reading my computer monitor.

I REALLY want a hard copy and have contemplated just printing out the entire PDF.

You definitely know your stuff Michael, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on my posts. Gives me a chance to learn and amend ideas that were incorrect.

Hey Danny,

Thanks for the comment and your good attitude. Very appreciative!

I have yet to learn the art of reading online for long periods of time. It wears me out. I don't know how people do it.

My ex-fiance actually had a hard copy of one of Stefansson's books laying around the house (I forget which one), so I did a lot of reading there. Fascinating stuff!

You should check around. There are usually some inexpensive book copies that can be had on the web if you search diligently, or if you are near a well stocked library.

I may agree that some meat, if raw, organic and grass fed can be part of a healthy diet. However, an all cooked meat diet is only asking for trouble. Note that Vilhjalmur Stefansson was not as healthy as you might think. He suffered a minor stroke in 1952 and a more serious one in 1958. He died of another stroke in 1962, seven years after he adopted his high fat, high meat diet. So Vilhjalmur Stefansson ended up a vegatable by not eating enough vegatables!

Cheers,
Jeff

Who diagnosed you with having too much lead and mercury in your body? Chelation therapists are notorious for their quackery not unlike vitamin producers and homeopathy. Here are a couple summaries:

Chelation Therapy
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelation.html

Mercury Testing (Inaccuracy)
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/mercurytests.html